Curse

Sophitia Leafblade · Dec 07, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28

I used to use a build like the flaming Barrager, however due to the high elemental armour of alot of offenents i found it nto as effective as it should be.

Ive since found that using Judges insight when barraging is very effective although this requires a 2 sec cast very so often, the +20% pentration on all the hits is very effective, I can be used more effectivly in areas with enchant shatters tahn the conguers due to its smaller recharge, although the enchant lasts no were near as long as conguer.

alot of people will think this build is disadvantagious due to the cast times but it more than makes up for with the damage increase, compared to using a conguer, especially in higher level areas.

A vampiric or Sundering, hornbow of marksmanship or enchanting helps this build work even better.

XvArchonvX · Dec 07, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by appoc

Well, I guess it sounds good, but I dont really like the feeling of having no back-up of self-heal... :s but I guess that as I am a ranger I shouldnt take damage anyway

but anyways...
Well... that thing about Tigers/beastial fury, I have already had that in my mind before

If you have a monk to support you, worry more about damage reduction and less about healing of damage taken. When you stop to heal yourself, you will likely not pull off your heal until the monk does or you will get double healed, which is a waste. If you bring damage reduction, however, there is less need to heal you and your decreased likeliness to get spiked horribly will make you easier to heal.

rake · Dec 08, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

It would be nice if someone could clarify this for me, because I'm trying to build the most efficient/powerful PvE barrage ranger possible:

If I get a regular perfect short bow (15-28), it has a firing rate of 1.8 seconds.

Tiger's Fury says that you attack 33% faster: Does this change the speed of the barrage reload, the firing rate, or what?

Because if I'm using a short bow, I'm thinking that the 33% increase will do nothing for me, since the reload time on barrage is 2 seconds.

But if I assume that 33% faster rate, this means that my reload rate drops to like 1.2 seconds on the bow? This means I can fire off barrage, then a savage or called shot, followed by another barrage, all within a span of 3 seconds or so?

Is this possible, or am I getting the wrong idea on the firing rates that are in the game.

Also, if I have a bow with a "15% more damage, -10 armor while attacking", is that only for the 15-28 damage? So I gain 4.2 extra damage at best? Or is does this work with my entire damage output.

And one more thing: Basically, if I get a grip of fortitude, and a sup. rune of vit, I can afford to get a sup rune of markmanship and a sup rune of fire, and the fire should add a few points to my conjure flame and the mark. Considering that during barrage, you're hitting many targets, the damage adds up, so I think a superior rune of fire would be worth it.

Thoughts, comments?

XvArchonvX · Dec 08, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

IAS skills and barrage can get a bit confusing. Basically an IAS will not reduce the 'cast' time of Barrage. What it will do is reduce the time between 'casts' where the ranger strings a new arrow. An IAS with barrage will benefit dps the most when the user uses a hornbow however. I would refer you to the second post by Jenosavel on the following thread for all the technical math type stuff:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...3010423&page=2

I would also strongly suggest you not bother with a marks grip. If you go to the first page of the thread I just linked to, I asked about the effectiveness of a Marks grip on a bow and Jenosavel confirmed there also that the added damage really comes out to about +1 out of every 5 bow attack skills used (not every 5 attacks using a bow), so the damage increase is really very pitiful.

Finally, I would point out that if you are using Tiger's Fury with Barrage, then you will likely run into some strong energy problems, especially since expertise doesn't reduce the cost of stances. Personally, I would suggest you simply use Favorable Winds and use a flatbow if you are going to be going with ele secondary.

rake · Dec 08, 2006, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Yeah, sorry, I meant to say "Mark", as in, Mark of Rodgort (the skill that will set my foes on fire).

Well, after looking at that data, I'm still not sure what to make out of it. Apparently, if you spam Tigers Fury, you'll be low on energy, but you should be able to barely make it if all you do beside TF is spam Barrage (only 2 energy).

But check this out: Cast Favorable Winds. Cast Read of the Wind. That's +16 damage. Cast Conjure Fire, that's + ~18-20 dmg (depends on your level). Cast Mark of Rodgort, set all your foes on fire for 3 seconds.

While doing this, use a Fiery Short Bow (or hornbow) of Fortitude, with a +15% damage, -10 armor. This makes your max damage like 32, 33 on the bow itself. And use sup. rune of Fire and sup. rune of Marksmanship to up your Conjure Flame + Mark of Rodgort, and your bow damage. (with 12, you might hit the 4 second burn time, and 21 fire damage bonus).

Now, spam barrage. That's +17 damage per hit. If you look at the math, in your best case scenario, each hit is doing something in the 80's damage (max 86 I think). Imagine if you hit 4 to 6 foes each time, now that's some very impressive damage. This is not counting the burning effect!!

Now, best case scenario, again, cast Tiger's Fury. I know that this is asking for a lot, since you'll probably have almost no energy left, but even if you can cast it only once or twice, this can work.

You fire off barrage every 2 seconds now (because the reload times are reduced by TF). If you add up the math, this is some INSANE mob damage.

Is my math wrong somewhere? Am I overlooking something? Because if I'm looking at this correctly, this build is extremely powerful (though weak on armor and protection, I admit), and like I said, those damages aren't factoring in the burning that will be pretty much constant degen as long as you keep the Mark up and spam barrage (since you have a fiery bow string).

-rake

geekling · Dec 08, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rake

Is my math wrong somewhere? Am I overlooking something?

Barrage removes all preparations. - So you don't get the damage or benefits from 'read the wind'.

XvArchonvX · Dec 08, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

It is possible to spam TF with Barrage, but not for long. After about 2 rounds of TF, you will be strapped pretty hard for energy, depending on expertise level and other skills being used. Also, if you are putting points in Fire Magic for conjure, you won't have many left to bump up expertise much (and you don't want to run anything less than full 16 att Marks in a barrage build).

To summarize the conclusion of the thread I linked, here are the results of testing on barrage dps:

Highest DPS using Barrage with no IAS: Shortbow or Flatbow
- If favorable winds is used, then both bows will shoot arrows with minimal arc and the flatbow is therefore the best choice since it will also give maximum range.

Highest DPS using an IAS (such as Tiger's Fury): Hornbow
- While an IAS will increase the firing rate for all bows when using barrage, it will give a relatively higher increase in speed to the hornbow. Since the hornbow has an innate +10% armor penetration, it will produce more damage.

One thing to note also is that during the time of the testing on the thread I linked to, Tiger's Fury gave a +33% attack speed. Since then TF has been nerfed to only produce a +25% attack speed.

Also I should point out that Snipious Max should be credited along for Jenosavel for these results. Snipious did the tests to find the highest dps on barrage without a prep (found in this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=136832), while Jenosavel found the highest dps while under the effects of an IAS on the previous thread I linked to. I hope this helps.

rake · Dec 08, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

geekling, yeah, I knew I was missing something.

But it's okay, the burning will still keep a high DPS on them, so most of my previous post holds true.

XvArchonvX: I have a possible solution to the energy problem:

Check this skill:

Glowing Gaze - Spell
Energy: 5
Activation: 1 Recharge: 5
Spell. Target foe takes 5..50 fire damage. If that foe is on Fire, you gain 1..9 Energy.

Since all your foes are on fire, cast Glowing Gaze, then cast TF, and you should have no major energy problems (downside is that with one second cast time, you're away from your bow for quite a bit, since you need to cast TF after, but the 50 fire damage is better than nothing).

appoc · Dec 09, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

hmm... Could you do a conclusion of which skills and attributes for that build, rake?

rake · Dec 09, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Okay: Here is what I'm thinking (note this is a testing build, nothing is final here)

Attributes

Marksmanship: 12 + 3 + 1: 16
Fire Magic: 10 + 3: 13
Expertise: 8 + 1: 9
Beast Mastery: 2

Dead Points: 2. The reason you want to get 13 Fire Magic is because Mark of Rodgort increases to 4 seconds burning at level 13, which is an extra 7 damage (per target, per hit).

Mandatory Skills - - Note energy will change for some skills with Expertise.

Barrage - Attack [Elite]
Energy: 5 Activation: 0 Recharge: 1
Attack. All your Preparations are removed. Shoot arrows at up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +1..16 damage if they hit.

Favorable Winds - Nature Ritual
Energy: 5 Activation: 5 Duration: 30..150 Recharge: 60
Nature Ritual. Create a level 1..10 Spirit. For non-Spirit creatures within its range, arrows move twice as fast and strike for +6 damage. This Spirit dies after 30..150 seconds.

Tiger's Fury - Stance
Energy: 10 Activation: 0 Duration: 5..11 Recharge: 10
Stance. All your non-attack skills are disabled for 5 seconds. For 5..11 seconds, you attack 25% faster.

Conjure Flame - Enchantment Spell
Energy: 10 Activation: 1 Duration: 60 Recharge: 30
Enchantment Spell. For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a fire weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 1..21 fire damage.

Mark of Rodgort - Hex Spell
Energy: 15 Activation: 1 Duration: 10..35 Recharge: 5
Hex Spell. Target foe and all adjacent foes are Hexed with Mark of Rodgort. For 10..35 seconds, whenever each foe is struck for fire damage, that foe is set on fire for 1..4 second[s].

Optional Skills -

Glowing Gaze - Spell
Energy: 5 Activation: 1 Recharge: 5
Spell. Target foe takes 5..50 fire damage. If that foe is on Fire, you gain 1..9 Energy.

Pin Down - Attack
Energy: 15 Activation: 0 Recharge: 15
Attack. If Pin Down hits, your target is Crippled for 3..15 seconds.

Distracting Shot - Attack
Energy: 5 Activation: 0.5 Recharge: 10
Attack. If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1..16 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

Throw Dirt - Skill
Energy: 5 Activation: 1 Duration: 3..10 Recharge: 45
Skill. Target touched foe and foes adjacent to your target become Blinded for 3..15 seconds.

Dodge - Stance
Energy: 5 Activation: 0 Duration: 5..11 Recharge: 30
Stance. For 5..11 seconds, you move 33% faster and have a 27..75%% chance to "evade" incoming projectiles. Dodge ends if you attack.

Debilitating Shot - Attack
Energy: 10 Activation: 0 Recharge: 10
Attack. If Debilitating Shot hits, your target loses 1..10 Energy.

Savage Shot - Attack
Energy: 10 Activation: 0.5 Recharge: 5
Attack. If Savage Shot hits, your target's action is interrupted. If that action was a Spell, you strike for +13..28 damage.

Rez Signet

Other Info

I personally would probably try Glowing Gaze or Dodge (Glowing Gaze if I was running low on energy, otherwise Dodge to help get out of bad situations), Pin Down (I prefer Pin Down to Throw Dirt, since it has faster recharge and I can nail the warriors from a distance, before they get to me), and either Distracting Shot or Savage Shot. If you're doing a Mission or trying this in PvP, you should probably switch out Dodge or Glowing Gaze and go for Rez.

As far as the Bow:

Go for a Fiery [short, horn, flat] Bow of Fortitude. Also make sure you have a Sup. Rune of Vigor to make up for that Fire Rune.

Tactics

Cast Favorable Winds. Cast Conjure Fire. Cast Mark of Rodgort. Cast Tiger's Fury. Fire Barrage! If you don't have the energy to cast Tiger's Fury again, cast Glowing Gaze (on on one of the burning foes). Keep spamming Tiger's Fury + Barrage, and every 20 seconds, Rodgort in the general middle of the mob.

If a warrior or AS or D comes at you, use Pin Down and if you have it, Dodge to run away if there's more than one. If you see a monk or caster casting something big (or just casting a lot), fire off Savage/Debill/Distracting shot, depending on which you chose.

And that's it! Hopefully this build will work, I'm currently working on my ranger in Elona, still have to get a few more skills for this.

Feedback guys?

XvArchonvX · Dec 09, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rake

XvArchonvX: I have a possible solution to the energy problem:

Check this skill:

Glowing Gaze - Spell
Energy: 5
Activation: 1 Recharge: 5
Spell. Target foe takes 5..50 fire damage. If that foe is on Fire, you gain 1..9 Energy.

Since all your foes are on fire, cast Glowing Gaze, then cast TF, and you should have no major energy problems (downside is that with one second cast time, you're away from your bow for quite a bit, since you need to cast TF after, but the 50 fire damage is better than nothing).

Sounds good in theory, but it would require a big investment into fire to make it worthwhile. Personally, I wouldn't run more than 9 att in fire in a ranger build.

Sir Mad · Dec 09, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

...a hornbow with Judge's Insight...

Are you sure the AP of the hornbow stacks with the AP of JI? The 10% of the hornbow don't stack with the eventual 20% of a sundering string. I don't know about JI - you should check that.

appoc · Dec 09, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by rake

Okay: Here is what I'm thinking (note this is a testing build, nothing is final here)

Attributes

Marksmanship: 12 + 3 + 1: 16
Fire Magic: 10 + 3: 13
Expertise: 8 + 1: 9
Beast Mastery: 2

Dead Points: 2. The reason you want to get 13 Fire Magic is because Mark of Rodgort increases to 4 seconds burning at level 13, which is an extra 7 damage (per target, per hit).

Mandatory Skills - - Note energy will change for some skills with Expertise.

Barrage - Attack [Elite]
Energy: 5 Activation: 0 Recharge: 1
Attack. All your Preparations are removed. Shoot arrows at up to 6 foes adjacent to your target. These arrows strike for +1..16 damage if they hit.

Favorable Winds - Nature Ritual
Energy: 5 Activation: 5 Duration: 30..150 Recharge: 60
Nature Ritual. Create a level 1..10 Spirit. For non-Spirit creatures within its range, arrows move twice as fast and strike for +6 damage. This Spirit dies after 30..150 seconds.

Tiger's Fury - Stance
Energy: 10 Activation: 0 Duration: 5..11 Recharge: 10
Stance. All your non-attack skills are disabled for 5 seconds. For 5..11 seconds, you attack 25% faster.

Conjure Flame - Enchantment Spell
Energy: 10 Activation: 1 Duration: 60 Recharge: 30
Enchantment Spell. For 60 seconds, if you're wielding a fire weapon, your attacks strike for an additional 1..21 fire damage.

Mark of Rodgort - Hex Spell
Energy: 15 Activation: 1 Duration: 10..35 Recharge: 5
Hex Spell. Target foe and all adjacent foes are Hexed with Mark of Rodgort. For 10..35 seconds, whenever each foe is struck for fire damage, that foe is set on fire for 1..4 second[s].

Optional Skills -

Glowing Gaze - Spell
Energy: 5 Activation: 1 Recharge: 5
Spell. Target foe takes 5..50 fire damage. If that foe is on Fire, you gain 1..9 Energy.

Pin Down - Attack
Energy: 15 Activation: 0 Recharge: 15
Attack. If Pin Down hits, your target is Crippled for 3..15 seconds.

Distracting Shot - Attack
Energy: 5 Activation: 0.5 Recharge: 10
Attack. If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1..16 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

Throw Dirt - Skill
Energy: 5 Activation: 1 Duration: 3..10 Recharge: 45
Skill. Target touched foe and foes adjacent to your target become Blinded for 3..15 seconds.

Dodge - Stance
Energy: 5 Activation: 0 Duration: 5..11 Recharge: 30
Stance. For 5..11 seconds, you move 33% faster and have a 27..75%% chance to "evade" incoming projectiles. Dodge ends if you attack.

Debilitating Shot - Attack
Energy: 10 Activation: 0 Recharge: 10
Attack. If Debilitating Shot hits, your target loses 1..10 Energy.

Savage Shot - Attack
Energy: 10 Activation: 0.5 Recharge: 5
Attack. If Savage Shot hits, your target's action is interrupted. If that action was a Spell, you strike for +13..28 damage.

Rez Signet

Other Info

I personally would probably try Glowing Gaze or Dodge (Glowing Gaze if I was running low on energy, otherwise Dodge to help get out of bad situations), Pin Down (I prefer Pin Down to Throw Dirt, since it has faster recharge and I can nail the warriors from a distance, before they get to me), and either Distracting Shot or Savage Shot. If you're doing a Mission or trying this in PvP, you should probably switch out Dodge or Glowing Gaze and go for Rez.

As far as the Bow:

Go for a Fiery [short, horn, flat] Bow of Fortitude. Also make sure you have a Sup. Rune of Vigor to make up for that Fire Rune.

Tactics

Cast Favorable Winds. Cast Conjure Fire. Cast Mark of Rodgort. Cast Tiger's Fury. Fire Barrage! If you don't have the energy to cast Tiger's Fury again, cast Glowing Gaze (on on one of the burning foes). Keep spamming Tiger's Fury + Barrage, and every 20 seconds, Rodgort in the general middle of the mob.

If a warrior or AS or D comes at you, use Pin Down and if you have it, Dodge to run away if there's more than one. If you see a monk or caster casting something big (or just casting a lot), fire off Savage/Debill/Distracting shot, depending on which you chose.

And that's it! Hopefully this build will work, I'm currently working on my ranger in Elona, still have to get a few more skills for this.

Feedback guys?

hmm...

I use Barrage, Fav. winds, TF & Feral Lunge (pet attack, 5e) in my current build and I feel that this build is already running low on energy.
I think it would be really hard to keep the energy up with Conjure flame and MoR too... (even if I skip that pet-attack).

btw. Im already using Druid's set for energy.

Sure, the build Sound good, if it would work, but Im doubtful if it really do... :s

And you said that you should use a Sup. Vigor rune for making up for the Fire-rune.... Where am I supposed to put that, all parts are already used up... :O Or are you able to enchant the shoes/boots too?

Edit: about glowing gaze for making up energy management... I dont find it very useful.
Explaination: It costs 5e, right... it gives you 9e, thats 9 - 5 = 4e win... and it takes 1s to use, in that time you reg. 1e, which means that you gain total 4 - 1 = 3e, and that isn't much. Is that really worth one slot of the skill-bar?

vergerefosh · Dec 09, 2006, 03:48 PM // 15:48

If need interrupts, get a necro with shivers and winter/someone else who can carry winter.
Winter turns all the bow damage into cold, cold interrupts.

Sir Mad · Dec 09, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by vergerefosh

If need interrupts, get a necro with shivers and winter/someone else who can carry winter.
Winter turns all the bow damage into cold, cold interrupts.

Winter turns elemental damage into cold damage, not physical damage (including arrows). However you can use Conflagration + Winter.

rake · Dec 10, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

appoc, yes enchant shoes.

XvArchonvX, eh, I dunno. If it becomes too much of a problem, I can switch my Fire and Expertise attributes and go for 2 mana barrage instead.

I'm still getting all my skills together, so i can't say if this build is a total failure or not, but I'm not giving up yet. I'll try my best to make it work.

ss1986v2 · Dec 10, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by rake

Marksmanship: 12 + 3 + 1: 16
Fire Magic: 10 + 3: 13
Expertise: 8 + 1: 9
Beast Mastery: 2

maybe ive missed something in the last couple of weeks, but when could you run a superior fire magic rune on your ranger? there is no way you can reach 13 in fire magic.

and just my opinion, but im not very fond of running multiple superior runes, especially in higher end areas. when you get to DoA and are gettin smacked like you have never seen, you are gonna miss that 75 health.